according to an other study Mac sales are actually up http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2420816

but still, good example. no matter which numbers you prefer, decline for PCs is far worse than for Macs. this shows the impact of Windows 8.

What's WB or WB8?

It also shows the impact of a lack of new technology in the market.

SSDs?  Sure, but most people don't need it.  Touch?  Cool for some, useless for most.  64 bit and DX11 games could, but that only matters to gamers...

Tablets?  Yeah, actually, practically everyone wants one...and MS has very little pull in that market yet.

As I mentioned, most people I know are fine on machines from five years ago.  Even gamers haven't had a need to upgrade until recently.

Myself if I had to choose between a fancy new Windows 8 machine and saving up for a PS4 I'd go for the PS4, since as far as I can tell DX9 and 32 bit games will still be a thing until 2016.  What's the point in spending more money on hardware and software when barely anyone uses the capabilities I've had for years?

Anyway, I'm off.  I'd love to pretend I have important things to do, but I should get to this real world thing either way.

You obviously didn't take in what I was trying to convey.  I DID NOT say people should like Win 8 because of Metro... or that they SHOULD LIKE the Metro UI.  You must also have missed the part where I said that I rarely see Metro... like only when I call it up.  In fact, it can be several days between sightings... weeks even.

What I DID say is that Metro is NOT the be all and end all of Win 8, that it can be avoided, rarely seen, and people who hate Win 8 purely on the basis of Metro are making piss weak excuses to dislike something they've barely investigated... because anyone who has thoroughly delved into Win 8 will see beyond Metro and discover much, much more.

Does that clarify it for you?

I don't know what my age has to do with it, but I am willing to listen to legitimate complaints when I hear them... it's just that I've not heard a legitimate complaint about Win 8 that truly holds water.  To date, everything I've heard has a workaround or 3d party solution to make Win 8 very, very usable.

I wonder which was, or will be, the biggest flop for Microsoft, Windows millenium, windows vista or Windows 8?

none of the above. their biggest flop is probably Bing. their non-English versions are so poor compared to Google or even Yahoo! that it is pretty much irrelevant outside the US. i even set my language to en-US in the Bing profile, but i still don't use it.

Windows Phone, the Zune and the Kin are not far behind. Encarta deserves a mention too. while it was popular for a period of time it just could not compete with Wikipedia.

I think Kin is pretty much the champion of flops.  It could've been a good idea but only if executed perfectly, which it was not.

At any rate I'm having trouble distinguishing between signal and noise lately with weekly (if not daily) multitudes of articles and forum posts saying 'Windows 8 has failed' 'Windows 8 has not failed' 'Windows 8 is awesome' 'Windows 8 is crap' 'Windows 8 is necessary' 'Windows 8 is pointless' so I'm going to have to try to avoid these discussions.

They certainly don't do anything for me.  I will just continue enjoying it and let you all (that haven't) figure out that XP blows goats on your own.

Well, for me personally, here's the reason I don't like Windows 8:

1. It's not how I'd change the UI to make things more efficient.
Now, understand that in Win7 I've "removed" the start button and have my own organizational method for UI via various programs. I understand that it'd not necessarily be efficient for anyone else to use, and it really is just a "fits just me" thing. However, that doesn't mean that when the new UI for Windows 8 is basically a 180 of how I'd do things, it won't affect me. It just means I'm only able to represent myself. Hence why I say "I don't like Win8 UI", rather than "Windows 8 UI is bad".

2. It was too drastic a change, too fast.
Personally, they could have salvaged the feelings people had right off the bat had they kept both options in this version of Windows.
- Have the desktop screen still with a start button (with the option to remove it in properties).
- Add a Metro UI button next to the normal start button so you can proactively sample it from the desktop screen.
- Have the "first time starting Windows" ask if you want normal desktop to be the normal startup, or the metro UI. Give the option to change this in startup options, easy to find (maybe have it in the Metro UI screen as a checkmark option).
Save a full Metro Only for the next PC version, or for tablet/phone only version now.
As it stands, it felt like a parent saying "Time to learn to swim" and tossing the kid into the deep end. A lot of casual PC users I encountered (family and customers in my profession) certainly acted like they were drowning. Frantic and shutting down. It breeds resentment, and no matter how much more efficient something might be, slapping a learning curve in the face is going to make a casual user forget to know how to learn (I experience this DAILY in my profession for other things, OS UI learning is no different). Even asking someone to do something they normally do causes people to freak out when they think it's new (I've had conversations devolve into "How do you normally turn it on?" and the response is "I don't know!", /sigh).

3. Flexing market control to inflate purchases.
I can't really fault them for doing this, as a business it makes the most sense. Pull anything not the new product (OEM). Disallow future updates on universally used stuff to anything but the new product (DirectX). I can understand why they did it.
Then again, I can understand why they sell their product for money. I still prefer open source methods for things rather than gunning for profit margins. I won't condemn them for it, but I don't have to admire them for it. There's an acceptable level of profiteering in my personal opinion. Some of the things these companies do, while legitimate, feel less than "customer oriented".
Also, "backward compatible when possible" is a big factor in how I look at things.
If I had the time and focus to build my own OS from slackware, I would do it. *shrug*

All of this gives me a negative opinion of the OS. Will I still use it the next time I get a PC or laptop upgrade? I don't doubt it. But you can bet I'm going to tailor it up as much as I did my previous OS.

And I'm certainly not going to approve or applaud the way they handled this.

^^^  very well said Kaisoku, and I would guess that most people who actually do use Win8 probably also agree with everything you've said in your post.

Nope, I'd go with Steve Ballmer... Bill Gates must be turning over in his humanitarianism over what that goose has done at MS.

ZDnet has a interesting opinion. Windows is dying.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-its-over-7000013964/

I have great respect for you, Monk, but it is diminished when you drift into silliness such as this.